New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie and Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul got into a heated argument about the limits of government surveillance during Thursday night’s first major Republican debate, in an exchange that showcased two competing schools of GOP thought about security and privacy.
“I want to collect more records from terrorists, but less records from innocent Americans,” said Paul, the son of libertarian icon Ron Paul, and one of the party’s strongest advocates for limiting government collection of Americans’ phone records and other data.
“That’s a completely ridiculous answer,” said Christie, a former federal prosecutor, who has said that the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks illustrated the need for broad-ranging collection of intelligence. “How are you supposed to know?”
“Use the Fourth Amendment! Get a warrant!” Paul responded.
Christie countered with the age-old insult that governors use against senators: “When you’re sitting in a subcommittee, blowing hot air about this,” the problem might seem easy, he said.
Paul retorted with the age-old insult that other Republicans use against Christie. “I don’t trust President Obama,” with records, he said. “I know you gave him a big hug.”
Billionaire businessman Donald Trump was the star of the first hour of this long-anticipated debate, while Paul was its heavy. In addition to his clash with Christie, he also sparred with Trump on two different occasions. At one point, Trump reiterated what for any other candidate_would be a radioactive statement. He said he supports a nationalized single-payer health-care system at least, as it worked in other countries.
“It works in Canada. It works incredibly well in Scotland. It could have worked” in the U.S. at one point, Trump said. Still, he said, he now supports a more modest set of health-care reforms, including allowing consumers to buy insurance across state lines.
Paul spoke up, saying that Trump was on the wrong side of everybody by praising a single-payer system. Trump brushed him off.
“I don’t think you heard me. You’re having a hard time tonight.”
Earlier in the debate, Trump took credit for bringing the subject of immigration into the 2016 presidential campaign during the first major GOP candidates’ debate on Thursday evening, in a sharp-edged performance in which he also indicated he might run as a third-party candidate if Republicans don’t choose him.
“If it weren’t for me, you wouldn’t even be talking about illegal immigration, Chris. You wouldn’t be talking. This wasn’t a subject,” Trump said to one moderator, Fox News’ Chris Wallace. Wallace also tried to press Trump to produce evidence for a key Trump claim: that the Mexican government was actively dispatching illegal immigrants over the border. Trump cited only conversations with “Border patrol. People, that I deal with, that I talk to. They say, this is what’s happening.”
He said he remained convinced that the Mexican government was orchestrating immigration, in order to avoid paying benefits and other costs associated with its own citizens. “The stupid leaders of the United States will do it for ‘em, and that’s happening, whether you like it or not.”
At the beginning of the debate, Paul had shown himself willing to attack Trump. But not everyone thought that was wise.
“They say we’re outspoken, we need to take lessons from Donald Trump,” Ohio Gov. John Kasich said, when Wallace asked him to critique Trump’s assertion. “He’s hitting a nerve.”
Florida Sen. Marco Rubio, when prompted to criticize Trump, also refused.
“People are frustrated,” he said.
As the debate’s first question, moderators asked candidates to raise their hand if they would not forswear running a third-party campaign against the GOP candidate. None of the 10 candidates raised their hand. And then, after a theatrical pause, Trump did.
“I cannot say, ‘I have to respect the person, who is not me,’” Trump said, as the crowd booed him. “We want to win, and we will win. But I want to win as the Republican. I want to run as the Republican nominee.”
Immediately, Paul attacked, saying that Trump was “hedging his bets,” and accusing him of being too close to the Clinton family. “He’s already hedging his bets on the Clintons,” Paul said, pointing in Trump’s direction. “He’s already hedging his bets, because he’s used to buying politicians.”
Just as in 2012, the primary showcased the GOP’s combative side. The crowd cheered when a moderator mentioned that Cruz had called Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky – one of the top Republicans in Washington – a “liar.” And Trump continued to be the best at embodying that edge. When moderator Megyn Kelly asked Trump about past statements criticizing women for their appearance, Trump responded by saying, “Only Rosie O’Donnell.”
He then turned on Kelly herself, suggesting she was on thin ice by even asking the question.
“I don’t frankly have time for total political correctness. And to be honest with you, this country doesn’t have time, either,” Trump said, as the crowd cheered. “If you don’t like it, Megyn, I’m sorry. I’ve been very nice to you. Although I could maybe not be, based on the way you have treated me.”
Other candidates sought to distinguish themselves in the debate’s first few minutes. Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee attacked Planned Parenthood by saying that it sold parts of aborted fetuses “like parts to a Buick.” Rubio, whose parents were Cuban immigrants, said that he could debate Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton about what’s best for families living paycheck-to-paycheck, because he had lived that way. Former Florida governor Jeb Bush_the son and brother of presidents_responded to a question about his family legacy by saying that “They called me Veto Corleone,” in Florida, he said, because he had vetoed so many bills. “I’m my own man.”
The two-hour debate, which began at 9 p.m. on Fox News Channel, ties the record for most candidates in any primary-season debate. And that’s not even the whole field: earlier Thursday evening, seven other, lower-polling candidates held a separate debate in the same Cleveland arena.
Meanwhile, Democrats announced Thursday that their debate season will kick off Oct. 13 in Nevada. The first debate will be followed by five others for the Democrats, a schedule that led a pair of underdog candidates to swiftly complain that there should be more.
